tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7699772873889750632.post4311707735509932453..comments2023-09-13T05:52:34.223-04:00Comments on Costo: Le géniepotsochttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09497735324298117643noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7699772873889750632.post-34703619669306284012011-03-22T15:02:51.717-04:002011-03-22T15:02:51.717-04:00Welcome Kayti. I went over to your place, guess I...Welcome Kayti. I went over to your place, guess I will have another blog to follow.potsochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09497735324298117643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7699772873889750632.post-39173987754461432132011-03-22T14:06:07.103-04:002011-03-22T14:06:07.103-04:00Hi Paul, Cheri and I are sitting here enjoying yo...Hi Paul, Cheri and I are sitting here enjoying your blog. Wonderful stuff. I am Cheri's godmother.Kaytihttp://www.pachofaunfinished.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7699772873889750632.post-28946058133768093822011-03-22T10:14:02.581-04:002011-03-22T10:14:02.581-04:00Ah ah ah ah. Paul, one more reason why we need you...Ah ah ah ah. Paul, one more reason why we need you in Ancient Britannia - the <i>Greek Laugh</i>.Man of Romahttp://manofroma.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7699772873889750632.post-64596866509841141852011-03-22T07:46:49.596-04:002011-03-22T07:46:49.596-04:00Part 1 finally recieved and read. You make a stro...Part 1 finally recieved and read. You make a strong case for the link between unhappyness and creativity. It would seem that mysticism (Bach) can be a creative motor. I like Bach but I consider him more as a musical mathematician than a musician. Everything he did was carefully constructed and ordered, beautifull to be sure, but after a few bars you can anticipate the next.<br />The great composers and other great artists that I can think of had a tortuous and unhappy life. Guess it explains why I am not an artist.potsochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09497735324298117643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7699772873889750632.post-76026547348473302702011-03-21T23:09:42.977-04:002011-03-21T23:09:42.977-04:00I'll try again. What I remember .... ;-)
_____...I'll try again. What I remember .... ;-)<br />____________<br /><br />Sledpress is right. A good musician can think and write music on paper also abstractly. Many composers did that (including Beethoven). Take the Art of fugue by Bach, the maximum monument to counterpoint (not concluded was finished by Busoni). That is to say, music can silently chant in the soul, like when we sing a song innerly.<br /><br />I am afraid I'll be long as usual. This post is stimulating and there is a lot to discuss about.<br /><br /><br />Paul said: <br /><br /><i>Est-il possible qu'un artiste soit un génie et heureux en même temps? </i><br /><br /><br />Je pense que ce soit possible. Par exemple Ferruccio Busoni, un vrai génie qui a pris de l'Italie et de l'Allemagne: he was successful, sensitive, full of vigour (a bit titanic like Michelangelo) and extremely good-looking since he was a kid (he had splendid parents it seems clear). Mais of course de moyen calibre si on le compare à Beethoven. Et Mozart alors? I don’t know. I think he has suffered too, but probably not as much as Beethoven, whose music definitely mirrors a very tormented life journey (I prefer Mozart in fact: as I said in my blog - as Busoni said lol - Beethoven sent music like a crazy -and a bit heavy - rocket into a neurotic direction that finally proved barren imo. To him I greatly prefer Bach, speaking of Germans).<br /><br />Bach btw certainly was not unhappy like Beethoven (but some of his children died, and 2 wives too: but Magdalena the third wife was young and sexy) and he also - like Beethoven - experienced what could be called the 'toiling hard' type of suffering, which is a form of joy btw (pain and joy come from similar areas of the brain it seems, nut I may be wrong). The Germans (but also many other Hyperboreans, mind: see the British during ww2) seem to me often "endowed with this great capacity of toiling (and suffering) in silence, an imprint of true force and indubitable courage: like the ancient Romans, more than the Greeks possibly: see how they defeated Hannibal".<br /><br />Our musical critic Massimo Mila wrote of Bach - which makes me think the bible motto is kind of right: "Paix sur la terre aux hommes de bonne volonté": <br /><br /><br />“Bach's immense musical production – Mila wrote - was put together with assiduous, methodical, quiet work, carried out with scrupulous care of artisan and conceived, without any pause, as service of God. Without any pause since, if Bach had been a shoemaker, he would have made a boundless number of shoes to the great glory of God, all carefully crafted and finished off with scrupulous care”.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />[Then the above comment of mine – part2 – continues: <br /><br />So maybe unhappiness goes to the non organised, Romantic, non disciplined bohemian-type of artist. Take Schumann etc. and in fact Clara's father - Schumann's piano teacher - didn't want her daughter to marry such a bohemian and fragile, 'romantic', man.<br /><br />Getting back to Busoni, he was good-natured but also …..]Man of Romahttp://manofroma.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7699772873889750632.post-1725045077230790092011-03-21T22:58:20.213-04:002011-03-21T22:58:20.213-04:00Of course you cannot know until you read what is l...Of course you cannot know until you read what is lost.<br /><br />And it is good not to be a full time blogger.Man of Romahttp://manofroma.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7699772873889750632.post-4071512625264527992011-03-21T18:10:55.907-04:002011-03-21T18:10:55.907-04:00There is nothing in my Spam box, not even a slice ...There is nothing in my Spam box, not even a slice of the thing.<br />I did not react because I was out until 1700 hour. Sorry folks, I'm not a full time blogger.<br />You all have a very interesting conversation and I learn and get a deeper understanding of the happiness vs creativity conundrum.<br />And MoR you did not go over the top but I really wonder where that part one of yours went<br />.potsochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09497735324298117643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7699772873889750632.post-73904655307988073622011-03-21T17:08:18.500-04:002011-03-21T17:08:18.500-04:00@Phil
I think you have told him already. But he d...@Phil<br /><br />I think you have told him already. But he doesn't react.Maniushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14545094229192176272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7699772873889750632.post-64395326799070171532011-03-21T14:27:52.095-04:002011-03-21T14:27:52.095-04:00To those who find "Google Translate" fru...To those who find "Google Translate" frustrating, paste the French text into the box sentence by sentence, or, better still, phrase by phrase. <br /><br />Pasting the whole essay <i>en bloc</i> into the translation box is too much for the Google translation softwarePhilippehttp://throughadarkglassly.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7699772873889750632.post-83113387672111901952011-03-21T14:18:26.925-04:002011-03-21T14:18:26.925-04:00@MoR - Blogger has over-zealous Spam-detection sof...@MoR - Blogger has over-zealous Spam-detection software. <br /><br />Tell Paul to check in his Spam box. That's where your disappeared comment will be.Philippehttp://sincetimebegan.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7699772873889750632.post-89199159500499833982011-03-21T12:21:58.337-04:002011-03-21T12:21:58.337-04:00WTH, why my part1 comment keeps getting banned by ...WTH, why my part1 comment keeps getting banned by Blogspot? It contained no disreputable stuff.Man of Romahttp://manofroma.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7699772873889750632.post-25525661628267079742011-03-21T11:18:39.505-04:002011-03-21T11:18:39.505-04:00Well, the first part of my comment got lost (in th...Well, the first part of my comment got lost (in the spam queue?). Here it is:<br /><br />Sledpress is right. A good musician can think and write music on paper also abstractly. Many composers did that (including Beethoven). Take the Art of fugue by Bach, the maximum monument to counterpoint (not concluded was finished by Busoni).<br /><br />I am afraid I'll be long as usual. This post is stimulating and there is a lot to discuss about.<br /><br /><br />Paul said: <br /><br /><i>Est-il possible qu'un artiste soit un génie et heureux en même temps? </i><br /><br /><br />Sorry to disagree with Cheri (but she mentions American literature, I consider any artist) mais je pense que ce soit possible. Par exemple Ferruccio Busoni, un vrai génie qui a pris de l'Italie et de l'Allemagne: he was successful, sensitive, full of vigour (a bit titanic like Michelangelo) and extremely good-looking since he was a kid (he had splendid parents it seems clear). Mais of course de moyen calibre si on le compare à Beethoven. Et Mozart alors? I don’t know. I think he has suffered too, but probably not as much as Beethoven, whose music definitely mirrors a very tormented life journey (I prefer Mozart in fact: as I said in my blog - as Busoni said lol - Beethoven sent music like a crazy -and a bit heavy - rocket into a neurotic direction that finally proved barren imo. To him I greatly prefer Bach, speaking of Germans).<br /><br />Bach btw certainly was not unhappy like Beethoven (but some of his children died, and 2 wives too: but Magdalena the third wife was young and sexy) and he also - like Beethoven - experienced what could be called the 'toiling hard' type of suffering, which is a form of joy btw (pain and joy come from similar areas of the brain it seems, nut I may be wrong). The Germans (but also many other Hyperboreans, mind: see the British during ww2) seem to me often "endowed with this great capacity of toiling (and suffering) in silence, an imprint of true force and indubitable courage: like the ancient Romans, more than the Greeks possibly: see how they defeated Hannibal".<br /><br />Our musical critic Massimo Mila wrote of Bach - which makes me think the bible motto is kinda right: "Paix sur la terre aux hommes de bonne volonté": <br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Bach's immense musical production - [I'm quoting from *<em><a href="http://manofroma.wordpress.com/2007/10/29/pleasure-in-craft-the-germans/" rel="nofollow">this post</a></em>* of mine, I'm not so fast-thinking] was put together with assiduous, methodical, quiet work, carried out with scrupulous care of artisan and conceived, without any pause, as service of God. Without any pause since, if Bach had been a shoemaker, he would have made a boundless number of shoes to the great glory of God, all carefully crafted and finished off with scrupulous care”.Man of Romahttp://manofroma.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7699772873889750632.post-79820068287871275402011-03-21T11:11:53.971-04:002011-03-21T11:11:53.971-04:00"Is it possible that an artist is a genius an..."Is it possible that an artist is a genius and happy at the same time?"<br /><br />Good question, Paul.<br /><br />In the American literature category, the answer is no.<br /><br />We did a little experiment back in the days when I was teaching in the public school and examined the lives of novelists,playwrights, and poets.<br />Few were happy.<br /><br />William Dean Howells comes to mind as one who was.Cherihttp://www.cheriblocksabraw.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7699772873889750632.post-27403315906232542752011-03-21T11:09:17.826-04:002011-03-21T11:09:17.826-04:00So maybe unhappiness goes to the non organised, Ro...So maybe unhappiness goes to the non organised, Romantic, non disciplined bohemian-type of artist, often fragile and deprived of real character. <br /><br />Getting back to Busoni, he was good-natured but also extremely mystical (he was convinced to be a reincarnation of Bach, and no one can exclude that if reincarnation exists). What he received from his parents and life (he lucky, my parents were a bit of a failure altho they did try I'll admit), he gave back to his pupils. <br /><br />An example we may have the British composer Kaikhosru Shapurji Sorabji (died in 1988), in my opinion one of the greatest British (and world's) musicians and possibly superior to Busoni, certainly more cosmopolitan, since even if totally British "son ascendance mêlait diverses origines : indienne de confession pârsî du côté paternel et un mélange hispano-sicilien du côté maternel" (French wiki). Et bien, c'est pas mal à mon avi. <br /><br />________<br /><br /><br />So in the end, after all this chatter-boxing (?) I guess Philippe is right, 60% right (figures arbitrary). <br /><br />Because almost any real good creation there are chances there's connections with introversion, solitude, at times even autism (lousy infancy is almost a must): elements of non happiness beyond any doubt. <br /><br />In short: in order to express pain (so beautiful and consoling, but also a bit masochistic in the Romantics, not in the classics) one has somehow to experience it and an artist, like a painter, the more colour hues he /she's got, the better is. As an alternative one hase Rossini (he totally eclipsed Beethoven in Europe for a whilr) or Vivaldi or Scarlatti (which I adore but I prefer Mozart, the Unique imo and the perfect example of all I love in art).<br /><br />Amen<br /><br />(I went over the top comme d'abitude) :-(Man of Romahttp://manofroma.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7699772873889750632.post-18541689714757966042011-03-21T11:00:56.936-04:002011-03-21T11:00:56.936-04:00Sledpress is right imo. A good musician can think ...Sledpress is right imo. A good musician can think and write music on paper also abstractly. Many composers did that (including Beethoven). The 'Art of fugue' by Bach, the maximum monument to counterpoint for example (not concluded, it was finished by Busoni).<br /><br />I am afraid I'll be long as usual. This post is stimulating and there is a lot to discuss about.<br /><br /><br />Paul said: <br /><br /><i>Est-il possible qu'un artiste soit un génie et heureux en même temps? </i><br /><br /><br />Je pense que ce soit possible. Par exemple Ferruccio Busoni, un vrai génie qui a pris de l'Italie et de l'Allemagne: he was successful, sensitive, full of vigour (a bit titanic like Michelangelo) and extremely good-looking since he was a kid (he had splendid parents it seems clear). Mais of course de moyen calibre si on le compare à Beethoven. Et Mozart alors? I don’t know. I think he has suffered too, but probably not as much as Beethoven, whose music definitely mirrors a very tormented life journey (I prefer Mozart in fact: as I said in my blog - as Busoni said lol - Beethoven sent music like a crazy -and a bit heavy - rocket into a neurotic direction that finally proved barren imo. Speaking of Germans to him I prefer Bach).<br /><br />Bach btw certainly was not unhappy like Beethoven (he was a good father and husband, but some of his children died, and 2 wives too; tho Magdalena his third wife was young and sweet) and he also - like Beethoven - experienced what could be called the 'toiling hard' type of suffering, which is a form of joy after all. <br /><br />The Germans (but also many other Hyperboreans, see the British during ww2) seem to me often "endowed with this great capacity of toiling (and suffering) in silence, an imprint of true force and indubitable courage", like the ancient Romans, more than the Greeks imo: see how they defeated Hannibal".<br /><br />Our musical critic Massimo Mila wrote of Bach - which makes me think the bible motto is kinda right: "Paix sur la terre aux hommes de bonne volonté": <br /><br /><br /><br />"Bach's immense musical production - [I'm quoting from *<em><a href="http://manofroma.wordpress.com/2007/10/29/pleasure-in-craft-the-germans/" rel="nofollow">this post</a></em>* of mine, hence cheating a bit] was put together with assiduous, methodical, quiet work, carried out with scrupulous care of artisan and conceived, without any pause, as service of God. Without any pause since, if Bach had been a shoemaker, he would have made a boundless number of shoes to the great glory of God, all carefully crafted and finished off with scrupulous care”.<br /><br />[to be continued] :-(Man of Romahttp://manofroma.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7699772873889750632.post-29606198850585979622011-03-21T09:45:18.210-04:002011-03-21T09:45:18.210-04:00I do agree with you Sledpress. As for his deafnes...I do agree with you Sledpress. As for his deafness it certainly made no difference since some of his most beautiful composition were written after he went totally deaf.<br />When he attended the first of the 9th, he could not lead the orchestra anymore, one of the person present had to make him turn around so that he could see the thunderous standing ovation that the work, the musicians and composer were recieving.potsochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09497735324298117643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7699772873889750632.post-19300640651966527232011-03-20T22:45:56.556-04:002011-03-20T22:45:56.556-04:00Since I more-or-less understand written French -- ...Since I more-or-less understand written French -- if given time -- collation with the Google version gets me there. I find the blunders of the translation engine amusing.<br /><br />I'm amazed at the notion that anyone could pigeonhole Beethoven's later music as "du sourd". Some people, as the British put it, think themselves "too clever by half." <br /><br />It seems to be that Beethoven was obliged to be brilliant at music long before the age at which any of us have any choice about what language we will speak, to revert to the matter of translation engines. Music was his language and physical deafness late in life made no difference to that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7699772873889750632.post-44767921890600220702011-03-20T19:17:28.702-04:002011-03-20T19:17:28.702-04:00Google translations are approximate but give the g...Google translations are approximate but give the general idea; when the language used is simple and not too litterary they are mre accurate to a point.potsochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09497735324298117643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7699772873889750632.post-61510620530562505612011-03-20T15:37:47.855-04:002011-03-20T15:37:47.855-04:00A great post, Paul, though the translation Google ...A great post, Paul, though the translation Google provided could have been edited.Rosaria Williamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03133147851332084180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7699772873889750632.post-80858634190499734132011-03-20T07:32:05.666-04:002011-03-20T07:32:05.666-04:00Rob-bear, ma réflexion sur Beethoven n'est que...Rob-bear, ma réflexion sur Beethoven n'est que cela une réflexion. Les musicologues et les historiens y trouveraient probablement bien des faiblesses. J'ai seulement voulu dire mon admiration pour l'homme et sa musique.potsochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09497735324298117643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7699772873889750632.post-1215462603061108192011-03-20T02:44:08.388-04:002011-03-20T02:44:08.388-04:00Merci, Paul. J'apprécie votre leçon de l'h...Merci, Paul. J'apprécie votre leçon de l'histoire.Rob-bearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00171692478879522588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7699772873889750632.post-83644142292152697962011-03-19T20:38:11.006-04:002011-03-19T20:38:11.006-04:00Est-il possible qu'un artiste soit un génie et...Est-il possible qu'un artiste soit un génie et heureux en même temps?potsochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09497735324298117643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7699772873889750632.post-52057457943633035862011-03-19T19:28:05.073-04:002011-03-19T19:28:05.073-04:00La vie de Beethoven a été frustrant et malheureux....La vie de Beethoven a été frustrant et malheureux. Mais, le génie de sa musique est né de cette souffrance et désespoir.Philippehttp://sincetimebegan.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7699772873889750632.post-33308828314872115672011-03-19T19:03:22.055-04:002011-03-19T19:03:22.055-04:00That he was and, his own way. quite a revolutionar...That he was and, his own way. quite a revolutionary.potsochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09497735324298117643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7699772873889750632.post-70731970485233752502011-03-19T18:15:18.294-04:002011-03-19T18:15:18.294-04:00He lived a fairly long life, and composed much. I...He lived a fairly long life, and composed much. I believe that we can see a life of ideals, passions, convictions, admirations, beliefs, as well as development in his musical techniques -- all the work of a brilliant composer. I think we see the life of a man over a long period, and one in which he was a leader in the evolution of music.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com